Forum:2019-11-06 (Wednesday)
Discussion for comic for . Many editors make long wikis. ---- Huh. I thought maybe Tweedle's poisoning would bring down Lucrezia when she got too "worked up" (it explains plot-wise why he's here at all...) but touching her triggers it, instead of stopping the effects? It will be interesting to hear the explanation for that.--Geoduck42 (talk) 06:40, November 6, 2019 (UTC) : I think Agatha was suffering, but not Lucrezia. Tweedle's touch, and the removal of the Locket will now allow Agatha to reassert control. Doug Relyea (talk) 06:44, November 6, 2019 (UTC) : And this does not bode well for the neural trap Zola is using. Doug Relyea (talk) 06:48, November 6, 2019 (UTC) :: Could you expand on that? Zola isn't in Agatha's body, so I don't see what one has to do with the other. Bkharvey (talk) 07:16, November 6, 2019 (UTC) :: :: Sorry, Yes, Zola is not present. It had occurred to me back when Lucrezia forced herself past the Locket and voiced the "...overcome all sorts of obstacles." that the Neural trap might be not much more of an obstacle than the locket. Doug Relyea (talk) 08:14, November 6, 2019 (UTC) ::: Ah, I see. Maybe, but remember that the locket was built for an entirely different purpose, and it was just luck that it suppressed Lucrezia. I guess we don't know just how authoritative a Loremistress is, but I'm betting the trap will hold. (But here's something scary: Lu must already have known how to become a queen back at the Castle. So now Zola knows. I guess the good news is that Zola isn't a spark.) Bkharvey (talk) 08:20, November 6, 2019 (UTC) ::: ::: Yes, that Zola isn't a spark is likely the good thing. Doug Relyea (talk) 08:32, November 6, 2019 (UTC) Lucrezia is showing a surprising lack of insight into other people's emotions, considering that that was part of her skill set earlier in the story. She can't quite decide if the ninjas are supposed to fear her or love her. (The wasps, I think, make people obey her without fearing or loving her.) And "she faced me and ran away" is far from the truth. People who have to tell themselves lies about their enemies to feel good don't survive well as a result. ➤ "No one has ever been able to resist me for long" is, I presume, a threat about wasps. But she seems to be relying on armor to deflect the Bom rays. She shouldn't have to bother! And "you'll soon see things differently" doesn't make sense if she's turning them into skeletons. ➤ What was scary about her, back in the day, was that it didn't matter how strong you were, or what weapons you had, or how clever you were, because she could just make you put all that strength and weaponry and cleverness to her service, because of the wasps. One super-weapon, at the level of free will. Kind of like the Mule, in Foundation and Empire. Bkharvey (talk) 07:06, November 6, 2019 (UTC) : I suspect she's talking about the wasps and her femme fatale allure. --Geoduck42 (talk) 07:16, November 6, 2019 (UTC) : : Lucrezia is getting cocky; no doubt before now she's been used to playing it fairly safe, planning carefully and attacking when she was fairly sure of winning (granted, that tended to be more often than not, which implies significant tactical ability or overwhelmingly powerful tech. Or both). Now, however, she thinks she holds all the cards, and is showing stereotypical supervillain arrogance and cockiness. At least that's my take. Dmbreakey (talk) 22:48, November 6, 2019 (UTC) It took me a while to understand the coloring in the second-to-last panel. It looks like part of her outfit has disappeared and we see a flabby belly. But actually, I think it's her left fist which she is holding in front of her body, and which Martellus subsequently grabs. 16:23, November 6, 2019 (UTC) :Took me awhile to understand that last panel too. I thought at first that the hand was grabbing/fondling something rather higher, which I wouldn't have expected in a G-rated cartoon. Interesting interpretation that it's Martellus' hand, and certainly better than anything I'd come up with. Maybe he's empowering Agatha somehow? Note also in the first panel that the Bom rays aren't hitting LIA's armor, they're deflecting off her personal aura or something. heteromeles :: The second and fourth rays, at least, are bouncing off armor. I'll grant you the other ones, now I look more carefully. Bkharvey (talk) 18:15, November 6, 2019 (UTC) ::At first the sleeve cuff was not convincingly Tweedle’s as it looked to be solid gold. However, Tweedle’s cuffs vary quite a bit in color in the different panels since his emergence and solid gold not out of the range. Then the problem was that the wiggly effect was very different than the grey skin + plewds that both Tweedle and Agatha experienced during withdrawal. But the whole activates-when-you-are-not-calm thing is symptomatic even if Agatha didn’t get wiggly. Then the problem becomes that Tweedle explicitly messed with body chemistry, not mental anything. So, here’s a possible theory: Tweedle knows Agatha’s body chemistry and, after seeing her go Agatha=>Lucrezia => Queen, explicitly messed with his own chemistry so that when he touches her, she goes into a wriggle fit. 9thGeneral (talk) 20:41, November 6, 2019 (UTC) ::: I went through that same line of reasoning about Tweedle's sleeve coloring. But, since he was unable to cure himself from needing Agatha's touch, I don't believe he could do what you suggest in essentially zero time. Bkharvey (talk) 01:52, November 7, 2019 (UTC) :::: Solid point that he wasn't able to cure himself even with a lot more time and motivation. Maybe it is easier to break body chemistry than fix it? Seems like weak plotting somehow. 9thGeneral (talk) 23:17, November 7, 2019 (UTC) ::It's also possible that, since the giant body was effectively conjured by LIA, and since we know that giant bodies can disappear suddenly, that it's going all squiggly because LIA lost control. The simpler explanation for why she lost control (one that's therefore wrong, because GG never does simple) is that Agatha's control was weakening because she hadn't hugged her weasel, let alone Tweedle, recently. LIA temporarily took advantage of the weakness and then overrode it by sparking up and then ascending, but Tweedle's touch restored Agatha. ::This explanation works because a) we haven't seen Tweedle surreptitiously gulping potions, and him playing madboy would require a flashback, and 2) it allows Tweedle to be insufferably smug and demanding once the mess is all over, because he figured it out. ::Oh, and observation (III), don't forget about the hardhat diver mooks. They still have to fire their gun thingies at someone. Unless the bears treat them like salmon. But that won't happen because we still have no clue who these dudes are under their helmets, and I don't think they showed up without some link to the plot. So at least one will have to live long enough to monologue about what they're doing there. Or something. heteromeles :::Well she just touched Tweedle to revive him. If we are to accept the generally hurtling pace, that was earlier in their day even if it has been months to us. We have seen Tweedle playing with his chemistry set to make Oggie his drink. Tweedle will be smug regardless if this were self-serving, self-sacrificial, or both. The post-salmon diver mooks may be around to add drama while Gil and Tarvek get re-sized Agatha into the Lucrezia Extractor or to make off with the Lucrezia container. I do like the idea of her going squiggly as prelude to shrinking. 9thGeneral (talk) 23:04, November 6, 2019 (UTC) ::: I think the divers were clearly briefed by Lunevka, based on what they do and don't know. (Of course, I've been wrong once or twice.) I also think they're clearly not wasped. I don't know why they're here, who sent them initially, or where their loyalties, if any, lie. Bkharvey (talk) 01:52, November 7, 2019 (UTC) I'm wondering if Agatha's reaction to Martellus' here is significant to current events. Note the skin crawl on her arm. --Fred1740 (talk) 18:55, November 7, 2019 (UTC) :Well-spotted! And problematic for Tweedle's continued vitality, if the same reaction follows. heteromeles